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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Corre (professional wrestling)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete (read down). This has to be one of the worst AfDs I've ever seen, simply due to the incredibly large number of non-votes. Using Ye Olde Bean Countinge Method, we come up with 7 keeps, 7 merge/keeps and 3 deletes. This would appear to indicate some form of article should be kept here, but that reckons without the uselessness of the commentary. Hazardous Matt didn't give a reason for his decision, Antonashi thinks that WP:CRYSTAL only applies to the "delete" group, WWEFan's argument is WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, and the nominator's argument of WP:CRYSTAL was almost prescient given the comments made by Jimsta28, 18-Till-I-Die and Zsmalls629. NJZombie is of the opinion that a listing of this group on the overarching organisation's website is an indication of notability, which it is not (although the lack of such an article would raise serious questions) and the comments by 94.163.110.214, Voices in my Head, Muur and Midnight. This is not something limited to the "keep" commentary - Tony2Times's opinion is also rather weightless - but the overall result is 6 valid Merge comments to 2 valid Delete comments, and no dedicated "keep" votes making their way through the meatgrinder.

So, merge. Simple enough. Except the merge comments cannot be understood to be simply "merge it all", because that would violate one of our pillars; the "merge" option can only be exercised to include verifiable information from reliable sources. And, despite the vast amount of heat and light surrounding this AfD, there is not a single reliable source referencing any data in the article at the moment. Both appear to be unofficial rumour sites (one designed circa 1986 and never updated) and a search through the reliable sources noticeboard to come up with evidence that there is some consensus on their validity draws squat. As such, the only remaining option is to delete - consider this a merge without redirect, in effect. I would remind almost all participants that if they want an article to be kept or deleted, the first stage would be to come up with an argument that at some point references the reason why we're at this page in the first place. Ironholds (talk) 07:00, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Corre (professional wrestling)

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The Corre (professional wrestling) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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The subject matter is a professional wrestling stable that has yet to debut on television let alone establish some sort of notability to warrant an article. After a few months of existence, an article might be noteworthy, but until then, the subject doesn't deserve a page.

P.S. I tagged the article for speedy deletion under A7, but a primary editor removed the tag. Instead of reverting it, I decided to bring it up at AFD instead. Feedback ☎ 20:20, 20 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think it may be better to list a passing reference in the individual wrestler's articles, but keep it in the Nexus article rather than Wade Barrett. The Nexus article is already a centralized point of history for a group that involved Barrett, Slater and Gabriel. A few lines in a subheading may be the best way to go. Hazardous Matt (talk) 20:24, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Because when Nexus was formed not only did it not have a name for the group, but the group of eight were relative unknowns fresh off NXT. The notability of Nexus is the reason why it was created so quickly. ☆ Antoshi ☆ T | C 22:18, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep We had this exact same discussion before with the Nexus, literally almost the same words, so I'll say there what I say here but more clearly: clearly this is going to be involved in a storyline. Wade Barrett is in the middle of a major push, this storyline spans not one but two WWE shows. It involves something close to a dozen people or more, including members of a now-famous group. You don't have to know anything about wrestling, or even have seen wrestling, to know that this is clealy the start of some major story arc. If we delete this or merge it or whatever we'll be right back here in six months when they're fighting the Undertaker or John Cena or whatever...why? It's one thing to say that, in some causes, people jump the gun--but they're telegraphing a major plot point here loud enough people are picking it up on radar in Russia, it's not premature to rightly point out that when everyone on screen is screaming "This is IMPORTANT!" like they're mad then clearly, WWE thinks this is important.18-Till-I-Die (talk) 04:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep They are just like any stable and will become a major plot and will influence WWE majorly, its the new stables coming through that hold the future for the dwindling tag team division, also this stable includes 2 Former Tag Team Champs, the last ever ECW champ and a 'Future Hall Of Famer' - WWE. And Thats The Bottom Line, Because Stone Cold Said So! --Jimsta28 (talk) 04:55, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Wade Barrett. All keep votes violate WP:CRYSTAL. The group has not established notability yet. Nikki♥311 06:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or merge with [whatever]. Future event that might be notable, but nonetheless WP:CRYSTAL. [CharlieEchoTango] 09:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect/Merge with The Nexus (professional wrestling) information in this article is still relevant to the ongoings of the Nexus until they establish some notability as a Faction themselves they remain the Aftermath as former members of the group. Afro (Talk) 12:20, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep The Corre just became an official stable this past Friday, but came together a week or two ago. They are already a big storyline, just like Nexus was when they first debuted. When The Nexus debuted, you knew they were going to be a major storyline. Well, The Corre is already a major storyline. Even if this gets deleted, it will be put back up next week when the storyline grows even more. Just because they haven't done much, doesn't mean they will just fall off the radar and never become an important group. You know they will be a big group. Zsmalls629 19:37, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is, we don't know it will be a major player in the scheme of things. For example, World Elite. That group did nothing notable. Hazardous Matt (talk) 19:40, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not to mention if it this article does get deleted and subsequently recreated the following week, it would be speedily deleted under WP:G4. -- Θakster  21:42, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Did this guy seriously vote twice? Feedback ☎ 04:49, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
He did indeed. And anyway, Power 25 doesn't necessarily signify notability. I could very well pick out from the archives joint listings for Jeri-Show and ShoMiz. None of these groups have an article and I'd say at this point they're more notable than the Corre. -- Θakster  14:09, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I see that this non-signing Power 25-loving double-voter is the guy who created the article. I think that shows how much good judgment was utilized when creating this unnotable article. Feedback ☎ 14:27, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Im sorry I forgot to sign, and I only double voted because I wished to show that WWE officially recognize the group. I'm sorry if it was the wrong thing to do. --Jimsta28 (talk) 17:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep An entry doesn't lack of notability only because someone is too blind to see it. The Corre is officially recognized by WWE.com and it's enough. --94.163.110.214 (talk) 17:49, 23 January 2011 (UTC) — 94.163.110.214 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • KEEP KEEP KEEP This is The Nexus Deletion discussion all over again. You all claimed that they weren't notable just because they wen't around attacking The RAW locker room and Ricky The Dragon Steamboat and yet look how Nexus is now it's under the leader of CM Punk and much has happened since their Debut on Viewer's Choice Raw. Need I remind you The Corre was founded by the SAME man who led The Nexus on their reign of terror over Raw for a good portion of 2010. Can we at least give this a few weeks before trying to kill an article about this group I mean it is possible (kaybe) that they did take out Teddy Long on Friday. While anything can happen in 6 days from now that's how pro wrestling works backstage rumors and dirtsheets and etc.--Voices in my Head WrestleMania XXVII 18:11, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rumors and speculation are not grounds for keeping an article regarding a splinter faction that has failed to do accomplish anything significant. And there are quite a few !votes suggesting the content be merged with either Wade Barrett or the Nexus (which I believe is optimal), so it isn't as if the content would be lost. Hazardous Matt (talk) 23:42, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Haz it has only been 2 weeks these things tend to grow. Just because it's just one paragraph about its 2 week existence don't mean that's how it'll stay. We ALWAYS EXPAND these kind of articles. GIVE IT TIME for Christ Sake this was what was the VERY 1st ENTRY of Nexus was [1]. But its expanded VERY VERY MUCH.--Voices in my Head WrestleMania XXVII 23:56, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We aren't saying that the article wont grow and expand, it just hasn't done anything worth of note at the moment and is as I put it earlier just the Aftermath of Nexus, the difference between Nexus and The Corre is the fact Nexus had a WWE Title shot in waiting which was worth of note and if I remember at the time they all were going into the SummerSlam Main Event which is a big four PPV there certainly was notability with Nexus, The Corre has done hardly anything to gain notability which suggests that it would be more suited to merge the current information in another article. Afro (Talk) 03:00, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You may be right but it won't help that some asshole brought up deletion after just 2 apperances. If this was 6 or 8 weeks after their debut and they still hadn't done anything then yeah you would have a better point but still they've only been on SmackDown for 2 show, TWO GODDAMN SHOWS GODDAMMIT. Can we at least see what happens this Friday before we continue this completely assanine discussion started by some stupid asshole who lost his ability to think many years ago otherwise he or she would know that these guys are probably who're responsible for Teddy Long being in the Hospital (kayfbe).--Voices in my Head WrestleMania XXVII 03:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please refrain from some such language as "asshole" in reference to some users, its uncivil and does not help the discussion. It's interesting though you bring up that they've been on 2 shows which is part of the exact reason why its better to merge with another article, we have no idea how long this faction will be around let alone whether they'll do anything of note. Afro (Talk) 03:48, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't it also be a good idea to wait till after the next episode of Friday Night SmackDown to judge what the next thing we'll do. I know someone in the industry and while he refuses to tell me (for obvious reasons)anything about this Friday with The Corre he did tell me WWE Creative Team writes these stories based on the rumors flying around the locker room and the WWE Universe.--Voices in my Head WrestleMania XXVII 04:00, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Even if you did know someone backstage, which I highly doubt since you conveniently bring this up now, it still wouldn't be notable for inclusion as there is no reliable source backing up this information and it'd still be WP:CRYSTAL as anything could happen between now and Tuesday or now and Friday which is the broadcast date. Afro (Talk) 04:06, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
A source for knowing someone backstage?? Again (for obvious reasons) he doesn't tell me all that will happen and all that.--Voices in my Head WrestleMania XXVII 04:27, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not saying you need a source though I highly doubt you do know someone backstage, however what you're alluding to is what we'd call WP:OR. Afro (Talk) 04:31, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
NascarKing/Voices, to reiterate what you have already been told, remain civil. Afkatk is correct. If you do have a source within WWE, then what you are stating is both prediction and original research and is not permitted. For more information, please read WP:CRYSTAL and WP:OR. Hazardous Matt (talk) 14:06, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge all content to The Corre (without redirect). This is a stable of notable wrestlers so it should be kept. However, the title should be deleted because there is only one "Corre" and that Corre is a redirect so there isn't a point of having duplicate content in two separate articles. Minimac (talk) 19:39, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hold on, I never once said I know what will happen this Friday. All I said was the Storylines they write are written around the rumors and dirtsheets that create subplots in the locker rooms and what is being heard around live events (as in fans and all that).--Voices in my Head WrestleMania XXVII 20:56, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
None of that improves the notability of the subject. Hazardous Matt (talk) 21:10, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Am I the only one who believes this has stalled to a pointless debate that no ones gonna win at this point? Cause it feels like that stupid deletion debate over Survivor Series again.--Voices in my Head WrestleMania XXVII 21:17, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is going around and around, so this will be my last post in this AFD. Regardless of what may have occurred with Survivor Series (I'm not sure what you're referring to), this AFD is not pointless. There have been multiple suggestions for retaining the information in relevant articles until the group becomes notable (which it may or many not do), a solution to simply deleting the article. Please re-read my above replies to your earlier justifications. I'm sure you'll see where I'm coming from. (And if you don't mind, could you indent your replies to keep them properly threaded?) Hazardous Matt (talk) 21:27, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I really do have to question if you all even do watch WWE on a regular basis otherwise you would know you've got a group 4 guys consisting of a man in the middle of a major major push, 2 very talented rookies who in my opinion would be much much better off with Barrett, and a baheamoth in the prime of his career. If you cannot see that these 4 men are on track for greatness, I have to queston not just your loyalty to WWE but to Professional Wrestling as a whole. Look at this not from a wikipedia terms or point of view but from say I don't know a fan in the stands.--Voices in my Head WrestleMania XXVII 21:46, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I really have to question your motives at times, when you say look at it from a fans view point, its both an incorrect view point and against wikipedia editing policy please feel free to read up on . Afro (Talk) 23:00, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Incorect? That's the whole point of what do you mean incorrect?--Voices in my Head WrestleMania XXVII 23:03, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry meant to leave you with a link here WP:NPOV. Afro (Talk) 23:21, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would like to state again, it is becoming clear this group, the Corre, is involved in an important storyline. They're clearly, and obviously, going to be involved for a prolonged engagement barring some unforseen event. This storyline covers not one but TWO different shows. I said it before, if we delete this we'll just need to remake it later, since this is obviously something important. And if you merge it with Wade Barrett (I don't know why you would since it'd make just as much sense to merge it with any of the other dozen or so people involved now in this story arc including apparently Vikki, Teddy Long and Dolph) then it will rapidly be large enough to warrent a split into a seperate article anyway, knowing how complex and continuity-heavy wrestling story arcs are--especially these "NWO-style Invasion" type story lines. So again I stress that this is really pointless, frankly it's just the whole "But...but will Nexus be relevent?" thing again, and I reiterate my Strong Keep vote.18-Till-I-Die (talk) 00:52, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I feel like I'm surrounded by idiots. (WP:Competence is required) Feedback ☎ 00:55, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, just people who believe in not demolishing the house while it's still being built. And you're lucky I don't report your calling us "idiots" as a personal attack. This I say, because I'm the Tom, and I'M AWESOME! Tom Danson (talk) 06:33, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for linking everyone to WP:DEMOLISH. Like that they can all have the chance to read the line that says "Sometimes it (the article) will be nothing but cruft that must be removed." This is one of those situations. Also, I give you benefit of the doubt there for the "WP:ATTACK" accusation. I was under the impression that if you say something that is 100% true, it can't be an attack. Feedback ☎ 10:57, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What Feedback said is definitely not a personal attack of any kind. Whoever believes that is an idiot.--Voices in my Head WrestleMania XXVII 01:06, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and Merge with the Nexus article. The Corre haven't done anything to make them notable, but as they're formed from original members of the Nexus and only really exist through Barrets exile from the group and the other two refusing to go through Punk's initiation then they're very relevent to the Nexus, even if just as a short paragraph for now. BulbaThor (talk) 17:39, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep as Own Page The Corre is it's own group on WWE Smackdown seperate from the Nexus. Three of the four members were part of the Nexus but The Corre and The Nexus are not the same group and have shown that they will not co-exist.Midnight XII —Preceding undated comment added 18:10, 25 January 2011 (UTC).[reply]
  • Keep Important WWE faction which split off from one of the biggest wrestling storylines of 2010 to attempt to do the same thing on a different show in 2011. Will be involved in many major feuds unless all members are injured, fired or both. 68.225.171.64 (talk) 11:32, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete They've existed for a fortnight on WWE's B-show; people said Cody Rhodes&Drew McIntyre should get their own page then they split up. If these guys make it past Mania, maybe they deserve one but until they do something there's nothing to write about. This is the very essence of week-by-week. Tony2Times (talk) 12:55, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The Nexus article was created almost the day of the group being given a name and yet, despite its shaky sources and an AfD, the article was decided upon to be kept. That's exactly the same situation that seems to be playing out here. The group have a tendency to stick together, not like your example, McIntyre and Rhodes were a random pairing of singles wrestlers and that hardly ever works out. ☆ Antoshi ☆ T | C 13:36, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment You can obviously tell that The Corre is going to be a major stable and that the WWE has big things planned for them. Why else would the WWE create a Facebook page for them? WWE has put The Corre, as one, on their Power25 also. The Corre has already taken out Teddy Long (who else could it be?), which will most likely lead to The Corre becoming involved in a major storyline. Its also pretty obvious that sometime down the road The Corre and The Nexus will once again meet. We saw the two stables together this past Monday on Raw and you can bet that won't be the last time they meet. For those who want to delete the article because they haven't done much, you are just looking at The Corre's CURRENT storyline. Yes, they haven't done anything noteable...yet. Look at where The Corre will be in 2 months from now (yes they will most likey still be around). Remember who makes up The Corre: Wade Barrett, winner of NXT season 1, former leader of The Nexus, Heath Slater, former Tag Team Champion & Nexus member, Justin Gabriel, former Tag Team Champion & Nexus member, and Ezekiel Jackson. 75% of this group were former Nexus members. For those who want to merge The Corre with The Nexus article, why? I know, like I said 75% of the group were former Nexus members, but they are not attached to The Nexus. The Corre is an entirely different group. It would be different if The Nexus split the group in half, with one half going to SmackDown and the other staying on Raw, but The Corre is not part of The Nexus. Zsmalls629 21:04, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of WP:Crystal in your comment. You keep saying things like "The Corre is GOING to be a major stable" and "Look at where The Corre will be in 2 months." You can't predict the future. I want this article to stay as much as anyone, but without sources, it's troubling. Like I said in my Keep vote, Wikipedia is about the facts. Without facts, all we have is original research and speculation. ☆ Antoshi ☆ T | C 00:20, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect some meatpuppetry and/or sockpuppetry going on here. Regardless, the deletion of this article is obvious. The glaring amount of "keeps" are all violations of WP:CBALL, WP:N and WP:OR. The consensus among the competent editors is that the article should be deleted just as it should be. Antoshi, arguing with editors who rant and obviously do not understand guidelines and policy won't do anything. Let's just try and keep the conversation between the editors whose opinions (be it in support or opposition of the deletion) are supported by guidelines, policy and most importantly, COMMON SENSE. Feedback ☎ 01:41, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback, It feels almost as though you're taking this a bit personally. You keep stating that the competent editors believe it should be deleted. So that means anyone who disagrees is the opposite, incompetent. I'm not arguing with anyone. All I said was that Wikipedia should be about the facts. That in mind, this is just another article on Wikipedia. The point is to further Wikipedia as a source of information. There is no sort of personal victory in believing that you're right. There is no personal victory in trying to prove that you are right. I've noticed this from several of your comments here and other places. Your comments, while not personal attacks are borderline offensive. Please don't try to brush me off as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. I've been here for over 5 years and although I don't have as many edits as you, it doesn't mean I know any less. Wikipedia is meant to be an encyclopedia that anyone can edit, but your suggestion is to keep this debate between people who 'know better,' and that anyone who isn't familiar with guidelines shouldn't be regarded as important enough to listen to. That's not an acceptable way to treat fellow editors. An AfD is decided on how many Keep vs Delete vs Merge votes there are, not how much knowledge or experience every editor who votes has. ☆ Antoshi ☆ T | C 04:38, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Next time, please read my words correctly: "Let's just try and keep the conversation between the editors whose opinions (be it in support or opposition of the deletion) are supported by guidelines, policy and most importantly, COMMON SENSE." I stated that all current opposition was based on CBALL and OR violations, I didn't say that any opposition would be incompetent. Read the words in bold, I said that only editors who are willing to use guidelines and reason to back up their opposition are more than welcome to discuss. Editors who are opposing because of the sole reason that "they have a feeling this stable is gonna be the bomb" shouldn't be given the time of day. Anyway, I just want to point out that I was telling you that you should avoid giving Zsmalls any explanation due to him, just like every other member refusing to get the "point". I never said you were incompetent, on the contrary, I basically said that you were one of the only competent people in this discussion. You terribly misunderstood. Feedback ☎ 13:14, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My comment, yes it did have a lot of WP:Crystal in it, but I had to make those comments to emphasize my statement. Feedback, I do get the "point". I voted to keep The Corre article, just like many people who voted. Some people still wanted to delete the article after I voted, and after I did vote, more news regarding The Corre came out, so I decided to comment on it, backing up my vote, even though some of it was based on CBALL. Zsmalls629 17:55, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Dude, its all based on CBALL. Speculation is the only reason you want to keep it. "Because it will be notable bla bla". They've only been active for 2 weeks and AS OF RIGHT NOW AT THIS PARTICULAR MOMENT they are not notable and therefore shouldn't have an article. If you don't understand that, then yes, you're refusing to get the point.Feedback ☎ 21:15, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If this article does get deleted, may I please be sent a copy so I may repost it when they do all of this stuff people (including I) are predicting, I still wish it to keep, but incase it isn't. Thanks. --Jimsta28 (talk) 03:15, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article's current state is terrible. Its 100% week-by-week results which is against WP:PW's manual of style. The consensus is to avoid week-by-week results and to point out key moments in the prose instead. Seeing as The Corre has only been active for a week or two, it doesn't have enough key moments to supply 3 sentences, let alone an article. Feedback ☎ 03:19, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Article is absolutely nothing but week-by-week with the play-by-play to go with it of a group which is, by and large, not-notable. The crystal balling is more than apparent within this AfD as well. Not a month ago, I was reverting revisions to the Nexus article of persons attempting to declare "RAW NEXUS" and "SMACKDOWN NEXUS" (Case in point). The state of this article is an utter mess. Perhaps in sometime if the stable has garnered notoriety independently, then it will be deserving of it's own article. But at this juncture, it honestly is about as notable as the "Angry Miz Girl". ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② 02:54, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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